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	<title>Comments on: Good news about Iraq</title>
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	<link>http://fabiusmaximus.wordpress.com/2008/02/18/good-news-iraq/</link>
	<description>A discussion of geopolitics, broadly defined, from an American's perspective.</description>
	<pubDate>Sun, 07 Sep 2008 10:40:47 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: Fabius Maximus</title>
		<link>http://fabiusmaximus.wordpress.com/2008/02/18/good-news-iraq/#comment-1052</link>
		<dc:creator>Fabius Maximus</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 25 Feb 2008 15:02:45 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Excellent new article about the Surge, the Anbar Awakening, and modern Iraq:  "&lt;a href="http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/story/18722376/the_myth_of_the_surge/print" rel="nofollow"&gt;The Myth of the Surge&lt;/a&gt;", Nir Rosen, Rolling Stone (6 March 2008).  Headline:  

&lt;em&gt;"Hoping to turn enemies into allies, U.S. forces are arming Iraqis who fought with the insurgents. But it's already starting to backfire. A report from the front lines of the new Iraq."&lt;/em&gt;

Also worth reading is John Robb's new analysis "&lt;a href="http://globalguerrillas.typepad.com/globalguerrillas/2008/02/adrift.html" rel="nofollow"&gt;Adrift&lt;/a&gt;" (25 February 2008).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Excellent new article about the Surge, the Anbar Awakening, and modern Iraq:  &#8220;<a href="http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/story/18722376/the_myth_of_the_surge/print" rel="nofollow">The Myth of the Surge</a>&#8220;, Nir Rosen, Rolling Stone (6 March 2008).  Headline:  </p>
<p><em>&#8220;Hoping to turn enemies into allies, U.S. forces are arming Iraqis who fought with the insurgents. But it&#8217;s already starting to backfire. A report from the front lines of the new Iraq.&#8221;</em></p>
<p>Also worth reading is John Robb&#8217;s new analysis &#8220;<a href="http://globalguerrillas.typepad.com/globalguerrillas/2008/02/adrift.html" rel="nofollow">Adrift</a>&#8221; (25 February 2008).</p>
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		<title>By: maximilliangc</title>
		<link>http://fabiusmaximus.wordpress.com/2008/02/18/good-news-iraq/#comment-1023</link>
		<dc:creator>maximilliangc</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 21 Feb 2008 17:54:00 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>"Victory in Iraq"

Glad to see we havn't lost our acute sardonic sense of humour around here,,,,.  maX</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Victory in Iraq&#8221;</p>
<p>Glad to see we havn&#8217;t lost our acute sardonic sense of humour around here,,,,.  maX</p>
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		<title>By: dckinder</title>
		<link>http://fabiusmaximus.wordpress.com/2008/02/18/good-news-iraq/#comment-1014</link>
		<dc:creator>dckinder</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 21 Feb 2008 15:54:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://fabiusmaximus.wordpress.com/?p=145#comment-1014</guid>
		<description>Re: tourism in Iraq.  See the LA Times article &lt;a href="http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/world/la-fg-expo21feb21,1,5028181.story" rel="nofollow"&gt;"It's not business as usual in Baghdad"&lt;/a&gt;, which, in part states: &lt;i&gt;There was the tourism company with plans for sparkling resorts in the desert,&lt;/i&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Re: tourism in Iraq.  See the LA Times article <a href="http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/world/la-fg-expo21feb21,1,5028181.story" rel="nofollow">&#8220;It&#8217;s not business as usual in Baghdad&#8221;</a>, which, in part states: <i>There was the tourism company with plans for sparkling resorts in the desert,</i></p>
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		<title>By: FDChief</title>
		<link>http://fabiusmaximus.wordpress.com/2008/02/18/good-news-iraq/#comment-1012</link>
		<dc:creator>FDChief</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 21 Feb 2008 13:51:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://fabiusmaximus.wordpress.com/?p=145#comment-1012</guid>
		<description>All the blood and treasure in the U.S. will not change the fact that Iran is the regional power.  Short of nuclear destruction or full-scale invasion I cannot see a way that the U.S. can prevent Iranian influence in the Shia portions of Iraq or restore Iraq as the "anti-Iran" it was during the Hussein era - there was a reason Donnie Rumsfeld went to Baghdad to give the old tyrant some Yankee lovin', after all.  So as long as significant factions see Iran as a counterweight to their enemies, e.g. as Dawa/SIIC sees the Persian help as needed against both nativist factions like the Sadrists and Sunni groups supported by the Saudis (and now the U.S.) Iran will continue to have serious influence there.  I agree with Mikyo that this will NOT be true in the north and west generally.

I suspect that the "best" outcome available to the U.S. at this point is a soft partition, with a nominally soverign government in Baghdad within the Iranian sphere of influence.  The problems I see with even this are:

1.  None of the neighbors are going to be happy with a functionally independant "Kurdistan", which as you point out, isn't exactly internally stable, either. While I doubt that any of these neighbors will physically invade, the past five years have shown the many ays you can find proxies within Iraq to carry your water if you want to make trouble there.  And possibly only Syria (as the weakest and poorest) has any motive to make access deal with the Kurds, an issue for a landlocked country.

2  The "mixed" provinces and Baghdad provide lots of potential for continued friction in the form of ethnic cleansing and factional fighting.  In essence, Mr. Bush's crusade has functioned to move the Arab-Persian border several hundred miles south and west.  Both factions and their sponsors (Saudis and other Arab states in Anbar and the Sunni-element mixed states like Diyala; Iran for the "federal government" and SIIC/Badr) will continue to vie for power.

3.  As noted above, the victory hymns are all about the IA/IP.  Civil government in Iraq is a bad joke now and has been since the corruptionpalooza Bremer years.  A semi-failed state with a strong Army as the only working institution?  Can you say "military dictatorship", boys and girls?  I expect a caudillo in Baghdad within a decade.  The only question at that point is will this Shiite Somoza be working hand in glove with the CIA, or with the Iranians (or playing us off against each other) and what will happen if, like many of the breed, he gets a dream of "reuniting" Iraq and invades the north, or attacks the Sunni CLC/militia areas.

For this mess we needed a Machiavelli or a Tallyrand and instead we had Dougie Feith and a troupe of GOP circus monkeys.  Sweet baby Jesus!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>All the blood and treasure in the U.S. will not change the fact that Iran is the regional power.  Short of nuclear destruction or full-scale invasion I cannot see a way that the U.S. can prevent Iranian influence in the Shia portions of Iraq or restore Iraq as the &#8220;anti-Iran&#8221; it was during the Hussein era - there was a reason Donnie Rumsfeld went to Baghdad to give the old tyrant some Yankee lovin&#8217;, after all.  So as long as significant factions see Iran as a counterweight to their enemies, e.g. as Dawa/SIIC sees the Persian help as needed against both nativist factions like the Sadrists and Sunni groups supported by the Saudis (and now the U.S.) Iran will continue to have serious influence there.  I agree with Mikyo that this will NOT be true in the north and west generally.</p>
<p>I suspect that the &#8220;best&#8221; outcome available to the U.S. at this point is a soft partition, with a nominally soverign government in Baghdad within the Iranian sphere of influence.  The problems I see with even this are:</p>
<p>1.  None of the neighbors are going to be happy with a functionally independant &#8220;Kurdistan&#8221;, which as you point out, isn&#8217;t exactly internally stable, either. While I doubt that any of these neighbors will physically invade, the past five years have shown the many ays you can find proxies within Iraq to carry your water if you want to make trouble there.  And possibly only Syria (as the weakest and poorest) has any motive to make access deal with the Kurds, an issue for a landlocked country.</p>
<p>2  The &#8220;mixed&#8221; provinces and Baghdad provide lots of potential for continued friction in the form of ethnic cleansing and factional fighting.  In essence, Mr. Bush&#8217;s crusade has functioned to move the Arab-Persian border several hundred miles south and west.  Both factions and their sponsors (Saudis and other Arab states in Anbar and the Sunni-element mixed states like Diyala; Iran for the &#8220;federal government&#8221; and SIIC/Badr) will continue to vie for power.</p>
<p>3.  As noted above, the victory hymns are all about the IA/IP.  Civil government in Iraq is a bad joke now and has been since the corruptionpalooza Bremer years.  A semi-failed state with a strong Army as the only working institution?  Can you say &#8220;military dictatorship&#8221;, boys and girls?  I expect a caudillo in Baghdad within a decade.  The only question at that point is will this Shiite Somoza be working hand in glove with the CIA, or with the Iranians (or playing us off against each other) and what will happen if, like many of the breed, he gets a dream of &#8220;reuniting&#8221; Iraq and invades the north, or attacks the Sunni CLC/militia areas.</p>
<p>For this mess we needed a Machiavelli or a Tallyrand and instead we had Dougie Feith and a troupe of GOP circus monkeys.  Sweet baby Jesus!</p>
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		<title>By: Mikyo</title>
		<link>http://fabiusmaximus.wordpress.com/2008/02/18/good-news-iraq/#comment-1008</link>
		<dc:creator>Mikyo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 20 Feb 2008 05:33:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://fabiusmaximus.wordpress.com/?p=145#comment-1008</guid>
		<description>This looks interesting "&lt;a href="http://blogs.stratfor.com/friedman/" rel="nofollow"&gt;Kosovar Independence and the Russian Reaction&lt;/a&gt;", George Friedman, Stratfor (20 February 2008):

"...The primary American interest in Iraq at this point is a negative one — namely, that Iraq not become an Iranian satellite..."
.
.
&lt;em&gt;Fabius Maximus replies:  This is interesting.  It would be more interesting if Friedman had a decent record of forecasting in Iraq.  Or if there was actual evidence that Iraq might become an Iranian satellite.  I doubt the Kurds will.  I very much doubt the Sunni Arabs will.  One of -- perhaps the most -- popular and powerful Shiite Arab leaders is very much opposed to Iraq becoming an Iranian satellite.&lt;/em&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This looks interesting &#8220;<a href="http://blogs.stratfor.com/friedman/" rel="nofollow">Kosovar Independence and the Russian Reaction</a>&#8220;, George Friedman, Stratfor (20 February 2008):</p>
<p>&#8220;&#8230;The primary American interest in Iraq at this point is a negative one — namely, that Iraq not become an Iranian satellite&#8230;&#8221;<br />
.<br />
.<br />
<em>Fabius Maximus replies:  This is interesting.  It would be more interesting if Friedman had a decent record of forecasting in Iraq.  Or if there was actual evidence that Iraq might become an Iranian satellite.  I doubt the Kurds will.  I very much doubt the Sunni Arabs will.  One of &#8212; perhaps the most &#8212; popular and powerful Shiite Arab leaders is very much opposed to Iraq becoming an Iranian satellite.</em></p>
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		<title>By: baduin</title>
		<link>http://fabiusmaximus.wordpress.com/2008/02/18/good-news-iraq/#comment-1005</link>
		<dc:creator>baduin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 19 Feb 2008 18:22:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://fabiusmaximus.wordpress.com/?p=145#comment-1005</guid>
		<description>Perhaps yes, perhaps no. But any such speculation is useless in practice. If Iraqis were left alone, it is quite possible that they would eventually work out a way to govern themselves without a dictator, either in form of a federation or simply by separating. 

But they are not alone. They border Iran and Turkey, and both those states have important reasons to intervene. Without a strong state they will not be able to defend themselves. Does a strong state require a dictator? Obviously not. But you cannot have a state without a strong center of authority. A bunch of tribes barely able to tolerate each other won't be able to create an army strong enough to balance Iran. Therefore, Americans got to stay.

What is worrying me is that Americans seem to be following an Iranian script. Iran needs now Americans in Iraq - they need "hostages" so they won't get bombed. A low level infiltration etc keeps things on the boil without provoking anything dangerous for the Mullahs.

When they get their nuke, they will want America to leave, so they can go grab as much oil as possible. Fortunately, by that time America will be out of money and American public will be tired of the whole expedition.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Perhaps yes, perhaps no. But any such speculation is useless in practice. If Iraqis were left alone, it is quite possible that they would eventually work out a way to govern themselves without a dictator, either in form of a federation or simply by separating. </p>
<p>But they are not alone. They border Iran and Turkey, and both those states have important reasons to intervene. Without a strong state they will not be able to defend themselves. Does a strong state require a dictator? Obviously not. But you cannot have a state without a strong center of authority. A bunch of tribes barely able to tolerate each other won&#8217;t be able to create an army strong enough to balance Iran. Therefore, Americans got to stay.</p>
<p>What is worrying me is that Americans seem to be following an Iranian script. Iran needs now Americans in Iraq - they need &#8220;hostages&#8221; so they won&#8217;t get bombed. A low level infiltration etc keeps things on the boil without provoking anything dangerous for the Mullahs.</p>
<p>When they get their nuke, they will want America to leave, so they can go grab as much oil as possible. Fortunately, by that time America will be out of money and American public will be tired of the whole expedition.</p>
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		<title>By: Baduin</title>
		<link>http://fabiusmaximus.wordpress.com/2008/02/18/good-news-iraq/#comment-1004</link>
		<dc:creator>Baduin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 19 Feb 2008 10:41:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://fabiusmaximus.wordpress.com/?p=145#comment-1004</guid>
		<description>"These folks have lived together, often peacefully, for millenia."

Yes. Sumerian city states, from 2900 to 1800 BC. 
http://www.wsu.edu/~dee/MESO/SUMER.HTM

Here is a short timeline of Iraq's history. I suggest to anyone thinking that Iraq can survive without a strong central authority to try to find a period, AFTER Sumerians, where this happened.

http://historymedren.about.com/library/text/bltxtiraqmain.htm
http://www.al-bab.com/Arab/countries/iraq/history.htm

See also:
"&lt;a href="http://www.meforum.org/article/101" rel="nofollow"&gt;Iraq's Culture of Violence&lt;/a&gt;", Shafeeq N. Ghabra, &lt;em&gt;Middle East Quarterly&lt;/em&gt; (Summer 2001)
"&lt;a href="http://www.meforum.org/article/1707" rel="nofollow"&gt;Culture in Post-Saddam Iraq&lt;/a&gt;", Nimrod Raphaeli, &lt;em&gt;Middle East Quarterly&lt;/em&gt; (Summer 2007)
"&lt;a href="http://www.meforum.org/article/1847" rel="nofollow"&gt;Correspondence:  How Violent Is Iraqi Culture?", &lt;/a&gt;&lt;em&gt;Middle East Quarterly&lt;/em&gt; (Winter 2008)
.
.
&lt;em&gt;Fabius Maximus replies:  powerful evidence.  Perhaps you are right.&lt;/em&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;These folks have lived together, often peacefully, for millenia.&#8221;</p>
<p>Yes. Sumerian city states, from 2900 to 1800 BC.<br />
<a href="http://www.wsu.edu/~dee/MESO/SUMER.HTM" rel="nofollow">http://www.wsu.edu/~dee/MESO/SUMER.HTM</a></p>
<p>Here is a short timeline of Iraq&#8217;s history. I suggest to anyone thinking that Iraq can survive without a strong central authority to try to find a period, AFTER Sumerians, where this happened.</p>
<p><a href="http://historymedren.about.com/library/text/bltxtiraqmain.htm" rel="nofollow">http://historymedren.about.com/library/text/bltxtiraqmain.htm</a><br />
<a href="http://www.al-bab.com/Arab/countries/iraq/history.htm" rel="nofollow">http://www.al-bab.com/Arab/countries/iraq/history.htm</a></p>
<p>See also:<br />
&#8220;<a href="http://www.meforum.org/article/101" rel="nofollow">Iraq&#8217;s Culture of Violence</a>&#8220;, Shafeeq N. Ghabra, <em>Middle East Quarterly</em> (Summer 2001)<br />
&#8220;<a href="http://www.meforum.org/article/1707" rel="nofollow">Culture in Post-Saddam Iraq</a>&#8220;, Nimrod Raphaeli, <em>Middle East Quarterly</em> (Summer 2007)<br />
&#8220;<a href="http://www.meforum.org/article/1847" rel="nofollow">Correspondence:  How Violent Is Iraqi Culture?&#8221;, </a><em>Middle East Quarterly</em> (Winter 2008)<br />
.<br />
.<br />
<em>Fabius Maximus replies:  powerful evidence.  Perhaps you are right.</em></p>
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		<title>By: Chet</title>
		<link>http://fabiusmaximus.wordpress.com/2008/02/18/good-news-iraq/#comment-1003</link>
		<dc:creator>Chet</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 19 Feb 2008 00:20:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://fabiusmaximus.wordpress.com/?p=145#comment-1003</guid>
		<description>Or, as the Iranians are reported to have told an American diplomat several years ago, "If you remove Saddam Hussein, you're eventually going to have to restore him because only a dictator can keep that place together."

So there may well be another hegemon in Baghdad, but there's little sign that the Iraqis are looking to us to fill that role.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Or, as the Iranians are reported to have told an American diplomat several years ago, &#8220;If you remove Saddam Hussein, you&#8217;re eventually going to have to restore him because only a dictator can keep that place together.&#8221;</p>
<p>So there may well be another hegemon in Baghdad, but there&#8217;s little sign that the Iraqis are looking to us to fill that role.</p>
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		<title>By: baduin</title>
		<link>http://fabiusmaximus.wordpress.com/2008/02/18/good-news-iraq/#comment-1002</link>
		<dc:creator>baduin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 18 Feb 2008 20:02:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://fabiusmaximus.wordpress.com/?p=145#comment-1002</guid>
		<description>This is unfortunately not enough. The new form of Iraq, as an amalgamation of tribal territories, will require a hegemon, to keep the vestigial state functioning and to stop the neighbours from interfering. So American Army will have to stay. 

But it will not be able to stay much longer - the cost is becoming too great. Either America will manage to occupy Iraq much cheaper (a Foreign Legion?), to construct a unified state (unified enough to keep a viable army) or Iraq will become the arena of conflict between Kurds, Turkey, Iran etc.
.
.
&lt;em&gt;Fabius Maximus replies, re:  need for a hegemon.  How do you know this?  These folks have lived together, often peacefully, for millenia.&lt;/em&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This is unfortunately not enough. The new form of Iraq, as an amalgamation of tribal territories, will require a hegemon, to keep the vestigial state functioning and to stop the neighbours from interfering. So American Army will have to stay. </p>
<p>But it will not be able to stay much longer - the cost is becoming too great. Either America will manage to occupy Iraq much cheaper (a Foreign Legion?), to construct a unified state (unified enough to keep a viable army) or Iraq will become the arena of conflict between Kurds, Turkey, Iran etc.<br />
.<br />
.<br />
<em>Fabius Maximus replies, re:  need for a hegemon.  How do you know this?  These folks have lived together, often peacefully, for millenia.</em></p>
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		<title>By: J.</title>
		<link>http://fabiusmaximus.wordpress.com/2008/02/18/good-news-iraq/#comment-1001</link>
		<dc:creator>J.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 18 Feb 2008 17:12:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://fabiusmaximus.wordpress.com/?p=145#comment-1001</guid>
		<description>Excellent analysis, but I would take some issue with your view of future American roles. I doubt that the US Army is playing an effective role (or wants the role) of being the buffer or protector of public spaces. It would be far better to pull back to Kuwait and provide training assistance and intelligence services to the central government (or whoever they feel should benefit). The border issue is a critical one, and the question is, do you mean surveillance of the borders or border patrols? I vote for the former.
.
.
&lt;em&gt;Fabius Maximus replies:  Good questions, to which I will not dissent.  I was being generous.&lt;/em&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Excellent analysis, but I would take some issue with your view of future American roles. I doubt that the US Army is playing an effective role (or wants the role) of being the buffer or protector of public spaces. It would be far better to pull back to Kuwait and provide training assistance and intelligence services to the central government (or whoever they feel should benefit). The border issue is a critical one, and the question is, do you mean surveillance of the borders or border patrols? I vote for the former.<br />
.<br />
.<br />
<em>Fabius Maximus replies:  Good questions, to which I will not dissent.  I was being generous.</em></p>
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