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	<title>Comments on: Mocking the &#8220;culture clash&#8221; reporting about the Iraq War</title>
	<atom:link href="http://fabiusmaximus.wordpress.com/2008/05/06/yglesias-mocks-the-culture-clash-reporting-of-the-iraq-war/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://fabiusmaximus.wordpress.com/2008/05/06/yglesias-mocks-the-culture-clash-reporting-of-the-iraq-war/</link>
	<description>A discussion of geopolitics, broadly defined, from an American's perspective.</description>
	<pubDate>Mon, 07 Jul 2008 04:49:47 +0000</pubDate>
	<generator>http://wordpress.org/?v=MU</generator>
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		<title>By: Fabius Maximus</title>
		<link>http://fabiusmaximus.wordpress.com/2008/05/06/yglesias-mocks-the-culture-clash-reporting-of-the-iraq-war/#comment-2637</link>
		<dc:creator>Fabius Maximus</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 12 May 2008 14:17:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://fabiusmaximus.wordpress.com/?p=285#comment-2637</guid>
		<description>Update:  "Blood debts and exotic others", posted on 11 May at the &lt;a href="http://kingsofwar.wordpress.com/2008/05/11/blood-debts-and-exotic-others/" rel="nofollow"&gt;Kings of War&lt;/a&gt; site (blog of the Department of War Studies, King's College London).  This makes much the same point as my post, with more detail.  Excerpt:



"The many shifts and changes in propaganda by Saddam Hussein should make us remember how fluid, contested and volatile culture really is. Iraqis have ‘tradition’, but they also have politics, they may have tribe, but they also have the interpenetration of ideas, technology and influence.

"Unfortunately, dodgy ideas of culture are not just evident in popular media, but amongst some retired generals, academics, at least one senior cultural anthropologist, respected public affairs journals, and military doctrine. Hopefully the talented (and brave) folk at the HTS will push back against this wave."</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Update:  &#8220;Blood debts and exotic others&#8221;, posted on 11 May at the <a href="http://kingsofwar.wordpress.com/2008/05/11/blood-debts-and-exotic-others/" rel="nofollow">Kings of War</a> site (blog of the Department of War Studies, King&#8217;s College London).  This makes much the same point as my post, with more detail.  Excerpt:</p>
<p>&#8220;The many shifts and changes in propaganda by Saddam Hussein should make us remember how fluid, contested and volatile culture really is. Iraqis have ‘tradition’, but they also have politics, they may have tribe, but they also have the interpenetration of ideas, technology and influence.</p>
<p>&#8220;Unfortunately, dodgy ideas of culture are not just evident in popular media, but amongst some retired generals, academics, at least one senior cultural anthropologist, respected public affairs journals, and military doctrine. Hopefully the talented (and brave) folk at the HTS will push back against this wave.&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: Sven Ortmann</title>
		<link>http://fabiusmaximus.wordpress.com/2008/05/06/yglesias-mocks-the-culture-clash-reporting-of-the-iraq-war/#comment-2474</link>
		<dc:creator>Sven Ortmann</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 06 May 2008 18:24:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://fabiusmaximus.wordpress.com/?p=285#comment-2474</guid>
		<description>I made my opinion on wars quite clear in my blog at "&lt;a href="http://defense-and-freedom.blogspot.com/2007/09/about-myself.html" rel="nofollow"&gt;About myself&lt;/a&gt;"

It is like this: 

"I'm no pacifist, although that was suggested recently as well. My recurring critique on wars might mislead people to that conclusion, but in fact I'm just hard to convince about going to war and continuing wars for far-reaching goals. I frequently use the word "needless" in combination with "war". As I see it, there are wars that need to be fought and wars that are plain stupid."

Show me a single really necessary, well-justified COIN war outside your own nation in history.
Afaik, you could always easily withdraw and the partisans rarely if ever pursuit (some troublesome examples exist in sub-saharan Africa, though).  I don't need to expect defeat to say no to such wars.
.
.
&lt;em&gt;Fabius Maximus replies:  Nicely said!  This echos these lines from Gone with the Wind, which follow those I quoted in "&lt;a href="http://fabiusmaximus.wordpress.com/2008/05/06/iran-2/" rel="nofollow"&gt;A militant America, ready for war with Iran&lt;/a&gt;".&lt;/em&gt;

Mr. O'HARA: And what does the captain of our troop say?

ASHLEY: Well, gentlemen...if Georgia fights, I go with her. But like my father I hope that the Yankees let us leave the Union in peace.

MAN1: But Ashley... MAN2: Ashley, they've insulted us.

MANS: You can't mean that you don't want war.

ASHLEY: Most of the miseries of the world were caused by wars.  And when the wars were over, no one ever knew what they were about.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I made my opinion on wars quite clear in my blog at &#8220;<a href="http://defense-and-freedom.blogspot.com/2007/09/about-myself.html" rel="nofollow">About myself</a>&#8221;</p>
<p>It is like this: </p>
<p>&#8220;I&#8217;m no pacifist, although that was suggested recently as well. My recurring critique on wars might mislead people to that conclusion, but in fact I&#8217;m just hard to convince about going to war and continuing wars for far-reaching goals. I frequently use the word &#8220;needless&#8221; in combination with &#8220;war&#8221;. As I see it, there are wars that need to be fought and wars that are plain stupid.&#8221;</p>
<p>Show me a single really necessary, well-justified COIN war outside your own nation in history.<br />
Afaik, you could always easily withdraw and the partisans rarely if ever pursuit (some troublesome examples exist in sub-saharan Africa, though).  I don&#8217;t need to expect defeat to say no to such wars.<br />
.<br />
.<br />
<em>Fabius Maximus replies:  Nicely said!  This echos these lines from Gone with the Wind, which follow those I quoted in &#8220;<a href="http://fabiusmaximus.wordpress.com/2008/05/06/iran-2/" rel="nofollow">A militant America, ready for war with Iran</a>&#8220;.</em></p>
<p>Mr. O&#8217;HARA: And what does the captain of our troop say?</p>
<p>ASHLEY: Well, gentlemen&#8230;if Georgia fights, I go with her. But like my father I hope that the Yankees let us leave the Union in peace.</p>
<p>MAN1: But Ashley&#8230; MAN2: Ashley, they&#8217;ve insulted us.</p>
<p>MANS: You can&#8217;t mean that you don&#8217;t want war.</p>
<p>ASHLEY: Most of the miseries of the world were caused by wars.  And when the wars were over, no one ever knew what they were about.</p>
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		<title>By: Pode</title>
		<link>http://fabiusmaximus.wordpress.com/2008/05/06/yglesias-mocks-the-culture-clash-reporting-of-the-iraq-war/#comment-2469</link>
		<dc:creator>Pode</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 06 May 2008 15:04:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://fabiusmaximus.wordpress.com/?p=285#comment-2469</guid>
		<description>"My old advice is to treat foreigners as if they were your people.
If the troops did so - and would not search a house without special jugde-like approval process - "

Found your mistake, Sven.  Requiring a warrant before searching a house would be treating foreigners BETTER than we treat our citizens.  Read the PATRIOT act.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;My old advice is to treat foreigners as if they were your people.<br />
If the troops did so - and would not search a house without special jugde-like approval process - &#8221;</p>
<p>Found your mistake, Sven.  Requiring a warrant before searching a house would be treating foreigners BETTER than we treat our citizens.  Read the PATRIOT act.</p>
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		<title>By: Sven Ortmann</title>
		<link>http://fabiusmaximus.wordpress.com/2008/05/06/yglesias-mocks-the-culture-clash-reporting-of-the-iraq-war/#comment-2464</link>
		<dc:creator>Sven Ortmann</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 06 May 2008 11:39:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://fabiusmaximus.wordpress.com/?p=285#comment-2464</guid>
		<description>My old advice is to treat foreigners as if they were your people.  If the troops did so - and would not search a house without special jugde-like approval process - then they would create much less troubles.

It's also no good idea to believe that a military convoy owns the road and can shoot/ram other vehicles that are "too" close.  "&lt;a href="http://defense-and-freedom.blogspot.com/2007/06/coin-four-choices-no-more.html" rel="nofollow"&gt;COIN - four choices, no more&lt;/a&gt;"  This kind of stuff is typical for excessive force protection that hurts the mission.
.
.
&lt;em&gt;Fabius Maximus replies:  When this war ends (I only write "if it ends" when depressed), the #1 discussion I suspect to see will be "Is COIN possible for foreign occupiers?"   the evidence is at best mixed so far.  Also, I am disappointed that you missed the opportunity to title that post "Four COIN's - no more."&lt;/em&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>My old advice is to treat foreigners as if they were your people.  If the troops did so - and would not search a house without special jugde-like approval process - then they would create much less troubles.</p>
<p>It&#8217;s also no good idea to believe that a military convoy owns the road and can shoot/ram other vehicles that are &#8220;too&#8221; close.  &#8220;<a href="http://defense-and-freedom.blogspot.com/2007/06/coin-four-choices-no-more.html" rel="nofollow">COIN - four choices, no more</a>&#8221;  This kind of stuff is typical for excessive force protection that hurts the mission.<br />
.<br />
.<br />
<em>Fabius Maximus replies:  When this war ends (I only write &#8220;if it ends&#8221; when depressed), the #1 discussion I suspect to see will be &#8220;Is COIN possible for foreign occupiers?&#8221;   the evidence is at best mixed so far.  Also, I am disappointed that you missed the opportunity to title that post &#8220;Four COIN&#8217;s - no more.&#8221;</em></p>
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		<title>By: Alex Broner</title>
		<link>http://fabiusmaximus.wordpress.com/2008/05/06/yglesias-mocks-the-culture-clash-reporting-of-the-iraq-war/#comment-2459</link>
		<dc:creator>Alex Broner</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 06 May 2008 05:32:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://fabiusmaximus.wordpress.com/?p=285#comment-2459</guid>
		<description>Pretending Iraqis don't have emotions like we do is just part of the process of dehumanization. We also pretend that they lack rationality. Some (though not all) of the 9/11 conspiracy theories is rooted in the idea that "those ignorant savages couldn't have done this".</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Pretending Iraqis don&#8217;t have emotions like we do is just part of the process of dehumanization. We also pretend that they lack rationality. Some (though not all) of the 9/11 conspiracy theories is rooted in the idea that &#8220;those ignorant savages couldn&#8217;t have done this&#8221;.</p>
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